Average rp enjoyer cloning discussion

General
1

Everything in this thread needs not touch lrp, as it is intented for MRP.
Do not even think about removing it from lrp, as that wouldnt help anything nor anyone, really.

–start–

Its not a newsflash to say that mrp is basically what lrp was with a little bit heavier rule enforcing. Thats not cool. One of the largest problems with mrp right now is the lack of self awareness of our fellow crewmembers, as they jump into danger (which is against the rules btw which in it of itself, a rather shitty solution) and ignore basic safety regulations on a regular basis. Problem discovered.
How can we solve this issue? Well, we could make a rule to forbid people to play dumb and risk their lives, correct. That concept is already enforced and is largely known even outside of ss13 under the name of… FearRP. Thats a steaming pile of dogshit, right there. Most rp rules outside of being a guiding light should not be this restrictive and dominant, as other rp rules (the “you are a crewmember” rule) mostly just make sure everyone knows the setting and is on the same page, not directly tell people what should be their reaction to any particular situation. This rule is already half assed in its enforcement too, as i dont think i need to tell you that assistants, barkeeps and doctors often rush the danger more so than sec. Not a good solution, ok.
What else can we, as the community, decide upon? Instead of forcing a largely obscure rule, we could make it so that bodily harm is not only an ic, but is also an in game issue. What is the best way to make a person not want to take a risk of taking bodily harm? Make it harder to fix, and dare i say it… Go the orange way. In the medical department specifically, of course. Now before further discussion of these ideas i say this:
*Please be civil in your discussion
*Friendly reminder that this is for mrp specifically, as lrp would likely not appreciate the change (if the community finds this waaaaaayyyy too much of a rift in the community, we would need to get the nsv crew to look at this proposal, as bee is now largely two lrp servers and nsv which is shaping out to be the mrp one)
*If you are strongly against the ideas listed down below, please argument and try to point out flaws, as saying “no 20200202002” wouldnt help.
*Take this poll on what kinda side are you on:

Do you (and how do you) want the medical changed?
  • I like it as is
  • I want the cloning specifically hardly nerfed, possibly removed
  • I want the cloning specifically nerfed
  • I want medical in general to be highly nerfed
  • I want medical in general to be slightly nerfed

0 voters

*Btw someone please ping the nsv guys.

2

MRP does not = realistic, that’s HRP.

I’m going to try put this in simple terms:

LRP is a game.

MRP is a roleplaying game.

HRP is a roleplay simulation.

We should be able to actually enjoy LRP/MRP; don’t whine because your tactic of scaring people with stechskins doesn’t work; people should be able to defend themselves because, at the end of the day, this is a game. Nobody wants to die and then have to no longer play because people are treating this too seriously.

4 Likes
3

Yes, but so many things just fall out of shape because of that one shitter mcASSistant who would perfectly belong on lrp but is currently just… Polluting the mrp with his presence and is ruining it for everybody.
It also makes it pretty much impossible to commit an act of theft without an act of murder stapled on top of it, seeing just how much the odds are stacked in the favour of the supposed “victim”.
Edit: its not even nearly as much about making mrp more hardly rp, its about leading the combat oriented people to lrp.
Edit:
Raising the stakes is the better way to word it. Yeah yeah. Instead of making it an admin rule, just raise the in game stakes.

4

Thats it, exactly! You cant force people to fear a death, which is really just a petty inconvenience. Hence, no rule.
Instead you make it an in game issue, which makes it up to the player and an actual decision about the risk that THE PLAYER made.
Edit:
Perhaps there is a need to specify that i would like to make fixing murder harder, not make the act of murder easier

5

No. LRP still should have some roleplay.

Problem with low rp standards on sage commes from golden being in a really bad state right now. Not only it differentiates from other servers in terms of movement speed, it needs rule revision.
Right now tg is bleeding players left and right. If they choose the bee they will surely hop onto mrp instead of lrp, and the tg is mostly lrp.

About the cloner. It is not an issue by itself. The actual issue is synthflesh. It’s super easy, super robust healing chem, capable of healing brute and burn, cloning people and you can’t overdose on it. Synthflesh factories, while building them is considerably harder now, they are still possible and make medical easy and mostly boring.
Cobby chem is shit, but removing sleepers and making medbay more surgery focused were a good changes in a long run.

3 Likes
6

Problem with synthflesh is medical is boring if you make it since you can instaheal anyone with it (or let them do it themselves), but if you don’t make it, when you are required to use the cloner you cannot, so either you make it and make yourself out of a job, or you don’t and are overwhelmed with the amount of bodies coming in and lack of time to spend 10 minutes per body reviving.

7

Imagine healing the same people over and over who eat maint pills, get reinfected by a zombie, get irradiated, lose their limbs to dumb shit like pierced reality etc.
Do I like it? Hell no but I can sometimes enjoy it.
But that’s a thing which the whole MRP as a culture needs to change and no stupid rule can force this change.

Also, orange man bad

1 Like
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I think medical should be designed so they cannot revive everyone and it actuall should take some time to revive someone.
Perhaps there should be some kind of stasis morgue (fuck organ decay) or cloner should spit out dead bodies?

1 Like
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I would argue that in ss13:
Lrp is a realistic (atmos, research, chemistry, complex healthpools, organs, many different departments, jobs, the systems which build the relationship between them and so on) setting, yet an unstructured socially experience, an anarchy without real borders.

Mrp is a realistic setting, yet an exaggerated social experience, where the laws of the world are completely realistic, but people are special, derailed, uncuffed, unbound, yet not weightless. People need not be ordinary, but they do have an immediate, in the moment structure and hierarchy.

Hrp is a realistic setting with grounded characters, where not only the setting is trying to be real, but the people too are acting as confined by the social structure.

10

obraz
obraz730×442 12.5 KB

me when tg med moment

11

Thanks for moving the discussion forward.

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The timeout you get when you die is considerable anyway, cloner is rarely upgraded when I play, I havent seen a synthfab in 5 shifts straight and default medbays are cramped/their space is fucking wasted. The maps would need box station’s treatment first before we talk nerfs as one of the duties of the CMO is rebuilding the whole medbay as they are so terrible (delta and meta)

3 Likes
13

That is a yikes from me bro.

Firstly : dying on mrp. There is like 20% chance that after you die, someone will revive you. And thats with cloning still in the game. Especially towards the end of the shift, bodies just lay around everywhere and people dont care to even bring you to medbay. And even if some good Samaritan brings your dead ass to medical, the staff there will prolly be majorly incompetent and let you rot in the hall as they figure out how to charge a defib, or how to scan a body in the cloner. Removing cloning will result in ever lesser chance of you getting revived. And now imagine 70 pop round, where 3 docs ( 1 of which knows how to do medicine) get swarmed with bodies from explosion / murderboning.

Secondly: healing is easy. Healing is super fucking easy in this game. Get a kit, use patch/oitment, use gauze and tadam. You mastered healing in ss13. Most of the crew carry medkits and patches on them at all time, which makes healing trivial. And in my opinion that makes them rush into danger and do stupid shit. Why should they care if they get hurt? Just slap a brute patch on that boy and he will be up and running in no time. If something needs to be nerfed, that would be insta healing from brute and burn with kits.

In conclusion: removal/nerf of cloning is a bad idea. If you want to scare people from going all unga bunga just make overall healing harder.

2 Likes
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But murderbone is illegal on mrp and explosions normally don’t happen unless it’s like tators with hijack

15

Very good points i myself couldnt really see, as i am mostly lucky enough to get revived immediately. But your argument seems rather appealing…

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“should take some time to revive someone.”

There’s already a skillbased medical system suited for MRP, it’s called TG’s medbay.

3 Likes
17

Que : nukies, chap with grace, sec getting wiped out almost every round, blob, sentient virus, normal virus from viro, clown with car, malf ai, xenos, zombies, revs, gang, cult and much, much more. And thats not counting antags who dont know the conduct or random ass griefers that seem to flood the server atm. Mass murder happens suprisingly often on bee.

And thats false again boyo. Big ass explosions happen almost every second round. And medbay is often the target. Be it sm, meteors, maxcaps or synide bombs, shit explodes often, and pressure kills as many as the explosion itself. Maxcaping brig is super popular as revs and cult, and no one is stopping a random ass traitor from blowing RD up to kill his target ( unless it turns into murderbone later on). Also as stated before, griefers exist, just to plasma bomb shit around.

I’d say TG medbay was mostly a gigant fuckup that ended up in a lot of people running away to different servers. I like small, quality of life improvements like traumas, but removal of cloning was very, VERY dumb. Unless we taking about HRP, cloning should stay without a doubt.

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I think medbay is fine as is currently, but if the main problem is synth flesh, and nerfing synthflesh further is a nerf to cloning, then why not make an extra chem that is only used for cloning. You can make synth flesh harder to make, while simply moving cloning to a new, not as hard to make chemical, or vice versa.

But the whole “medbay sucks ass most of the time once people are actually dying” is a valid point. Usually when people die in groups, Medbay gets overloaded really fast and pretty soon they practically give up as half the bodies rot. Its wild to me that what is seemingly the biggest medbay is on one of the lower pop stations. I will come back to this later. Since the cloning requiring synth flesh changes, there has been a sharp decline in people being revived. Even back then bodies would just stack up at cloning, and people wouldnt know who had and hadnt been cloned and plenty of bodies were just shipped off to the morgue without being cloned. But now the medical staff actually has to do shit, which is good.

This is part of my issue. This is exactly why cloning and healing shouldn’t be made harder. Having harder reviving won’t get rid of shitters. It just punishes all the people the shitters end up getting killed. lets say one shitter maxcaps the bar. For arguments sake, lets say 5 people are in the bar, 2 bartenders, a chef, and maybe 2 randoms. Because of how hard healing is now, those 5 people are out of the round completely. blown to bits, a ton of damage. Medical will likely not spend the next 20 minutes reviving each one individually because there is other shit going on, and probably injured people from the depressurization. who gets punished here? Its likely that the maxcapper griefer gets banned, but what about those 5 people? they are just FUCKED. The maxcapper probably KNEW they were going to get banned for being a shitter, but those 5 people didn’t know that some asshole was going to knock them out of the game for another hour.

Coming back to an earlier point, even if those 5 people and all the people who died or were injured as a result of the long term damage get taken to medbay, medbay on Meta and Delta couldn’t handle more than a small handful of people at a time. Even if there is the staff, there isn’t the room. It would require a whole rework of medical. sure you would gain the space cloning used to be in, but thats not that much space because cloning doesnt take much space.

Removing cloning all together, making healing harder, and so on just doesn’t sound like it would lead to anything fun for literally anyone. It sounds like it would just make everything suck more in medbay than it already frequently does.

1 Like
19

Cloning takes no skill and simply exists as a necessary evil to keep people in the round currently. If other ways are created which can revive people easily but require some input from doctors then I don’t see what reasonable disagreement there can be for removing it.

Currently alternative revival methods are as easy, or easier than cloning in most situations, but not all. They died from 200 brute? Tend wounds or spray synthflesh then defib. Their heart has somehow decayed meanwhile despite the organ decay timer having tripled recently? Do a heart bypass surgery beforehand, then repeat. Very simple and quick.

But if they got both disembowled and fully delimbed? Yeah that’s going to take a longer to fix than one-click cloning unless you go for a brain transplant or pod cloning. Rightfully so though, a traitor who goes above and beyond to destroy a body should indeed have a greater likelihood of keeping them dead. Instead currently no matter how bad condition a body is in, if it’s found then Medbay can still easily clone them.

I do agree with Medbay itself badly needing to be reworked on Meta and Delta. The Box rework is great by having 3 stasis beds and 4 surgery tables.

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