I’m talking about magicarp transformation. Technically xeno with human name is on the crew manifest but should I consider it part of the crew?
What about other polymorphs? Borgs with human names? Slimes?
Gonna ping @Ruko since he’s the most active headmin. I think there should be a rulling clarifying this issue.
This is not a final decision from me as head admin, just my thoughts on an issue that I haven’t really considered in depth before now
It’s worth debate and noting down in the grand rule clarification and I just answered the question when one of the admins pinged me. Here’s a couple of relevant rulings related to the situation presented:
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All crew transformed is expected to retain their original memories and allegiences, except when transforming into morphs via gluttony’s blessing. They are valid to others on both servers and may defend themselves following lavaland escalation. You might be horribly disfigured, but you’re still an employee of NT and should hesitate to kill your friends.
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Mulligans change your identity to the AI, the AI no longer recognizes you after using one even if they know a mulligan has been used. Because of this, I think all transformations in which you do not retain your name should automatically make you non-crew to the AI
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Identified changelings are not considered to be human OR crew to the AI despite matching the appearance and crew manifest. This is only true if the AI itself has confirmed the changeling situation firsthand, but it is true nonetheless, so this calls into question the identity of other crew that have shapeshifted.
Based on the above my personal opinion is: No I don’t think transformed crew should be considered crew anymore. They have fundamentally changed and no longer match the crew manifest record that the AI has in its possession, with the only exception being when the AI witnesses the transformation.
Consequences of this include race-change serums causing the AI to no longer recognize crew as well which will be of particular consequence to Xenobiologists that transform into slimepeople, or if an anatagonist runs around and injects race-changing serums into folks to de-humanize them on cresimov.
Both of these cases are acceptable losses to me and make crewsimov more dynamic than it currently is. What do others think though, before this goes to council vote inevitably?
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In the end this is a grey enough area it could be left up to the discretion of the AI as well. Each AI can logic in their own way as long as that specific AI is consistent for that round.
The more we iron out specific niche situations like this, the less unique each round can be
Food for thought
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I completely agree with your reasoning and it falls in line with how current silicon policy regards e.g. changeling transformations.
Ruko you are really fast.
I have to agree with you on all the points you made here.
Or the AI-less borg.
I have to disagree. There are no problems like that in the normal asimov. It’s the problem of crewsimov alone and AIs should know how to act in all the situations.
Gluttony
To clarify, non antag miners are allowed to take gluttony, and go onto station and cause chaos?
Yes. It’s one of the few things that allows you to directly self-antag. Gluttony’s blessing is seen as a reward and miners are allowed to use it to become and act like a morph.
Given the “trial” you pass to get the syringe, it makes at least a small degree of sense as well.
make transformed humans non-human untill the HoP or captain give them a ID and job and thus add them to the manifest, making them crew.
you can add any humanoid to the crew manifest using the sec records console
i did that once as an ai with a round with a friendly wizard, you can also use the sec records console to remove someone from the crew records for some cough cough ai assissted murder cough cough
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Some AIs refuse to aid you in your quest if the target gets removed from the manifest, for muh muh muh raisins.
Gluttony is pretty dumb, we removed antag option from wishgranter (which is actually hard to get to) while gluttony is super easy and gives you antag status.
:^) It’s still there.