as ive observed trough many posts and discussions, both new old and ongoing. 2 major issues with our antags.
for one tots and sec are in a bubble. sec’s mindset makes them mostly interact with antags and
Antags mostly interact with sec ocasinally killing an few innocent bystanders
sec ignoring crimes and just trying to locate tots and remove them is a common occurance. id argue its their entire mindset. and tots doing sneaky/loud killfest objectives. while the crew looks from the side barely particapating
be fair
how many times have you been bored at a dull shift
only to find at the end 5 tots where just stealthing / removed by sec early / going on a rampage in sec compleatly ignoring the majority crew.
havent you grown bored of the same dull objectives that at this point for some are just excuse for going down with sec or compleatly ignored by others trying to do gimicks. that’s not a good sign
havent you been anoyed/dreadfull as sec/tot that the other party will basically try to round remove you the second they can once they get you.
do we need to live like this. there has to be a way to make sec concentrate on actually enforcing le LAW rather than wordlessly ending tots. and ignoring anyone else. for tots to do things other than steal/murder/run
to get enganging interactions between tots sec and the crew other than getting shanked in maint.
to get things less black and white and make the shift more. dynamic
the issues i can see are as follows.
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the round progression is placed on the shoulders of a handfull of antags who in return are placed as pure evil characters. making it very obvious for sec and the crew on who to aim against
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the antags’s objectives are also made into very grave crimes. for the sake of “challenge” since a tot can have only 2~3 i beilieve this is partually where the mentality of kill all tots asap comes from. other being the gameifying of an avarage shift. this usually means that a tot is fucked if they get to execute said crimes since most are considered captial and therefore round removing.
1 mistake and its all over -
pure evil vs pure good. all crew is encoraged to yell tot and runkill. tots are usually compleatly on thier own in a station of enemies. while sec literally doesnt care about anyone else other than tots(when blue alert rolls around) because minor crimes are not valid(outside of griefing) and therefore not worth the hassle once the valid WAS discovered. it is a shame you cant bribe anyone
The solutions - there is no one solution but i beilieve implementing several remedies would help the issue by compleatly refocosing the entire dynamic off the antag’s sole shoulders and onto a wider audence. while making more positive antag interactions
1. the antags themselves (violence is not always the option)
tg did something like that already where antags can pick from a list of objectives in exchange for TC’s
another thing* we will get back to later
with 3 tiers of crimes in space law the variety of possible objectives can be quite large
from small objectives to larger crimes some of the current ones in there to…
altough big endgame stuff is gated to a 20 or 30 minute wait time
i will get on objective ideas near the end
why would that be good?
becauseeeee
- when tots are allwoed to preform multiple of smaller crimes they both dont feel as pressured to sucseed at everything. they can finally loose some and win some without the mindset of ALL OR NOTHING that usually leads to mass sec slauther.
- until they reach the endgame they are at lesser risk of being round removed witch we can all agree is a good thing to keep the shift from turning green
- variety. players who do not wish to particapate in the standard tot fest can finally and freely just do gimicks. using minor crimes to fund their operation
- its one of the multiple decicions(more upcoming) that will lessen sec’s bloodlust for getting da valid at all costs and acting more like a normal police force
- more varied objectives across the full spectum of crime severity may allow for some actual interactions rather than the 1 2 steal and kill
2. the lesser antags
how come everyne outide of sec and antags is a moral paragon
(as long as they are not griefing or engineers)
putting all the dynamcis weight of the shift onto antag’s shoulders
usually we dont have high antag counts because we all know what will happen. revs with extra steps
however… we can sitll make the crew be semi antagonistic without them having to go on a full violnence spree.
in come Lesser Antags
who RP wise due to greed or desperation have accepted a sydnicate contract. they are NOT antags per say but have the special right to persue their alteriour objective…
rule wise that means they follow the rules and escalations of a normal crewmember
so no murder or grand sabotauge or powergaming. BUT they can commit smaller crimes to advance their objective
about the objectives themselves. they share some with antags. from a simular objective tracker… without any tc rewards. they must get X amount of credits via objectives. or X obj done
i think sec should be tipped off about their existance at shift start.
via a sec concole that shows local rumors or nt reports of suspicous activity
alongside some fake ones at maybe rate of 2/3 being real so they cant meta it very effectively…
making sure sec doesnt compleatly miss all of them turning it into a boring fetch quest
while keeping sec something to look out for while they handle normal crimes finally giving sec something to do when tots arent strangling cmo in maint.
and we can put them onto HEADS… no more fully trustworthy but also not dangerously overpowered
since cmo cant drag you into maint or RD to get the ai onto your ass due to the rules of lesser antags
FINALLY heads of staff will not be above the law and naturally generated command conflicts may ensue.
(those are usually great the few times they occur ingame naturally)
with some repeatable objectives some criminal players maybe even heads could even get into a criminal enterprise by convincing others to join in the criminal operation
now i personally thing this is a role you need to earn with certain means
you cannot just roll for it. nor can it be spawned onto you randomly because i can see it being anoying for some who are not prepared to particapate to it
while some that i tlaked about it think it should be a random antag like all others… maybe… maybe both
some lesser antags can be rolled with a special single objective instead of a list… it would be a repeatable obj that grows in demand OR a objective with a special trait
more on the special obj trait in objectives talk at 5
why is it good for the game?
the lesser antags will offset sec’s ire from the normal antags distributing and lessening the pain of being caught
with sec having to deal with actuall moral depth rather than binary non antag antag dynamic alongside normal tots now having lesser crimes themselves. i hope beg and pray it will be enough to undo the mindset of hunt the valid. since sec usually doesnt consider lesser crimes a valid move
the wild idea
so ive been hinting at this from the prior points. as it is quite out there and a bit more wishy wishy and meental than the rest. but i do personally think it will be a a good final knot to tie everything together in a more dynamic system
3. the rules of deescalation
now mechanical changes to deescalate and diversify the threat is all cool and good. but from what’ we’ve seen with axel’s optional objectives without getting sec and antags off each other’s throats this will do very little. with theese changes must come modifications to the rules we have.
3_1. sec
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sec calls blue on the first sign of trouble out of the somewhat meta asumption that tots are here to commit the most grand of crimes and kill sec… as its expected
and once blue comes around the unoffitial manhunt begins. -
as a new rule blue alert may only be declared if MAJOR OR CAPTITAL CRIMES ARE COMMITED
After all blue alert is a state of elevated threat it doesnt really make much sence for the entire crew to enter a state of emergency cause a few people are runing around vandalising,stealing people’s pets and distributing keta’mc’methamine.
with only exeption id argue being manslauther. because i dont want sec to have the excuse to rise the warbanner because some medic accidentally overdosed the clown on bicadrine… you wanna raise on that get a det to find if it was accidental… or more -
again the idea is to get sec to calm down from the infinite manhunts. they can still crack down on criminals on green they just need solid proof and proper reasoning. to bagsearch a local tot
3_2. the antags
now as fun hating on sec is i do see the other side to and yes antags are also somewhat to blame… bombing sec or going on a pre emptive carnage just in case isnt exactly acts of the opressed.
the new antag rules shall be as follows.
sec is no longer always valid for antags to kill. prehaps only if you are hunted. preferably for a major crime that would come from one of the later objectives
now you can still kill an officer that catches you in the red to protect yourself… you just cant go on a sec hunting spree in maint or bombing the entire deparment.
the idea is to balance out the deescalation
and purpesfully exposing yourself to sec for the sake of killing them would fall under the same rule as. exposing people to your crimes purpesfully just to “silence the witness”
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fighting most of sec after they catch you stealing det’s paranormal liver or something. allowed
confessing to your crimes. getting chased around and bombing sec. not allowed -
taking down an officer in maint just cuz he’s sec… not allowed
taking down an officer in maint because he spotted your illicit operatio and is onto you… yes -
stealing a taken down officer’s everything. sure
raiding the armory just cuz you want some guns and getting in a gunfight with all of sec… not allowed
again. not only do you have simpler and more numerous objectives to do.
not only are there lesser criminals runing about distracting sec
and not only is sec limited in their responce as long as you dont have late game major objectives
its only fair you to are forced to let down the pressure
and besides it doesnt really make sence for a shoplifter or a pickpocketer to bomb the local police department before going to do crimes… hell not even an organized maffia would do that
4. a maybe controversial idea
now i know what im about to offer may be by far the most out there and least likely to be realized
but i really think it will synergize with the previous points greatly helping them mesh better.
just for a minute turn off your brain and imagine a inherently valued currency that persist between rounds. its valued by all crew and it can be exchanged (with proper admin logging) between players in the form of bribes. the things that can be done. now it wont be credits theese remain about as usefull as they are needed to fuffil objectives that need them. (its safer that way)
if we tie antag’s and lesser antags’s tasks sucsess to this a sort of economy of bribes may develop
you need a lot of X for your objective…
bribe a botanist to help you…
its an illegal good it creates RP and interaction.
it gets sec to bust a criminal cartel
it lets antags interact with crew in ways other than kil
it remedies the issue that all antags are on their own
its a nice insentive
the thing its used for might interest you (more on that later)
HELL YOU COULD OUTBRIBE YOUR OWN ASSASINATION OBJECTIVE AND GET AN ANTAG TO LEAVE YOU BE
now i hear you say… this is a breeding ground for exploitation and bad faith action.
but antags and brainwashing themselvs are the same if not worse. and we keep those at bay with rules and logging.
here’s how i see it going
the id now has 3 options of money handling. credits. the currency withdraws.
and the currency bribe holdings list
when extracting a holochip of the currency the chip cannot be accepted by any other id YET. first it needs to be given what the objective of the bribed may be
the rules and limitations of bribing will be the same as lesser antags. no murder or major crimes you are still a NT employe… just with questionable morals
once asigned to the holochip it may be inserted into the id of the recipient’s bribe holdings list
where upon the bribe will be logged to the admins with names. bribe obj. price and location
once bribed you are obliged. simular to brainwashing to fuffil your end of the bargan untill fuffiled
trying to break this transaction of faith in anyway is a subject to a bwoink. with the bribe logged it will be easy for an admin to see if there is bad faith
again we have golems sentience potions brainwashing that work in a simular way with the only * *
- diffrence is bribes do not give you anywhere near as much devotion. at most you can hire a noncombative assistant in your organ harvesting camaign or a medic to watch your health
or brig phys to get you out of jail. with the IC reprecutions of getting detained themselves
it fits great with the antags. giving them the ability to work and interact with the crew in ways other than murder/kidnapping/theft
we could make lesesr antag heads of staff have large objective quantity to fufflil. in exchange of a large pay out the head of staff may use this as a incentive to hire workers from their department and establish a small cartel. that sec needs to keep an eye out for
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now for the sake of balancing some people cap,hos.ect will have a trait of. incoruptable… basically they cannot accept bribes and even if they put a bribe chip in their id at the end of the round they will still get 0 Scredits
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and on the other hand. to encorage the stystem onto reluctant people. some will be… corruptable and will get 25% extra at the end of the shift when their bribes are tallied.
to protect from exploits they must also extract 25% more from their account when they plan to bribe others
how will tots know who’s who. more detail on the objectives part 5.
but WHY and HOW would the wild idea work
indeed we must return to the real world… for any of this to even remotely work the currency needs to have a strong value. it must be used for something other than bribery.
it itself comes form doing objectives as antags so that’s one good incentive to gets tots to risk their neck a bit. after all the main problem with gimick objectives is they have no reason to be done other than doing them for the sake of doing them. at the much more real risk of getting terminated if you fail
well… its used to buy consumables that modify your round
what type of consumables. well ive tought about a wild out there rough list of stuffs
the list of stuffs
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single shift items. with an autobuy function if you wish to keep the item in a semi permament form.
theese would be items that take time and can be anoying to get but are ultimately entertaining to have. such as the donksoft vendor,plushies,tamed pets(actually dangerous ones will be costlier)
xenobio potions. honestly the list of random stuff is pretty big… just gotta codedive for insparations
for safey purposes any items that have genuene purpose such as sentience potions will have an antag restriction tag… you can buy them but if you roll antag you not get them for that shift.
lesser antags can still get them since they are unable to commit grave crimes and that’s the main worry here -
consumable modifiers(more expensive) like spawning you as a shadowperson,a slime person or a snail if you are into that and anything else people can figure out (this is just a draft leave me alone)
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tokens(the good stuff). all shops need expencive high tier goods for players to aim for
due to their very specific nature tokens are not consumed at the start of the shift but may be redeemed by an admin to preform all kinds of major activities
alongisde the obvious antag token how about…- CentCom affiliation token. it allows you to request 1 centcom inspection for a purpose of your choosing… now you can roleplay as the stuck up dauther of john centcom and mess with all of sec and actually show some rich whitegirl force with it
- midroud token. ive heard some people complain how its extreemly rare to particapate as a
midround antag unless you become a ghost main. this would help… yes i know antag tokens let you play as some midrounds but others are excluded because… idunno admins fear 1 extra wizard a year.
slap a only 1 token can be used up per 5 rounds by ANYONE. they would be super expensive anyway so i doubt it will even be that common
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challenges. rember the lesser antags… wonder how you become one… this is how. you BUY it
its not so expensive that no one gets it but its not to cheap so that everyone has it on cue
also there is a limit to how many may be active at once for obvious reasions
if you sucseed with it you win the amount you invested and then some-
alongside the normal challenge we may put special antag objectives that may require special properties added to random crew from the start. (more on those)
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if bacon’s starsectorcruise pr comes in… ideas will fly. offstation traitors, smugglers…
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5. some objective examples
now if anyone wishes to particapate in the imagination of… what if objectives. some good places to get insparations would be the spacelaw crimes section. axel’s optional objectivs that some of whom colud be codified into proper tasks and maybe some 4x’s espionage objectives
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NOTE… if anyone thinks these objectivse are way to easy. do still remember some are designed to be easy since tots start with 0tc’s and ttheir purpose is to get them on thier feet either early on or if they get detained and loose it all… or they just suck
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ALSO do remember sec would have the tipoff concole that basically tells sec what they need to keep an eye out for… with some false ones alongside in there to keep them from reliably camping all the important areas for objectives
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the syndie infonet chatter- should be a little extra dialog on the objectives panel that gives some useful info to tots.
stuff includes what some of the later on major and capital objectivs might be.
And of course who is rumored to be corruptable and incoruptable
its goal is to give tots more usefull info and what to expect from later objectives
for the sake of brevity the currency will be refered as Scredits
objectives would fall within 4 tiers of severtity. within several categories with a few modifiers
-severities
- minor- small and easy crimes designed to help tots get on their feet. they’ll give peanuts in terms of tc’s and Scredits
- medium- the bulk of objectives. not to trivial. but also not to risky
- major- risky but profitable. theese objectives will only start appearing at the 20 minute mark
- capital- endgame tasks. they appear at the 20 minute mark but are eluded to in the tots
they dont give any tc’s since they are compleated at shift end… hijack is here. but not all give you the freedom of hijack
-objective types
- theft - various theft objecitves some would need you to get a specific items others will need you to get X amount of Y. stolen items can be extracted at a specific location. by calling a pod with the pda
- distribution - distributio of illicit items to crew or around the station. distribution to crew is more special and can only be given to lesser antags with it as a specific objective from the start
in order to give a objective to general crew to want to get said items - offstation- theese require the player to get offstation to preform a task either against other ships or to a specific location… the person must get a ship on their own… higher severity ones may spawn ghost ptarools for antags to watch out for
- confrontation- objectives that need to engage specific crewmembers and do something to them
- sabotrauge- disturbing specific station functions
- subtrufuge- generic espionage
-objective traits
- special- only lesser antags can get theese. instead of their normal list of objectives. theese objectives would require to spawn multiple crew at shiftstart with a trait that the lesser needs to locate and use
- syndicate only- lesser antags cannot get this
- exclusive- only 1 antag can get this at a time… all antags get notified of it… better grab it quick
- inclusive- when 1 antag selects it it will give 1 minute for other antags that where offered it to also roll in making a discount incursion… then the objective will spawn with acording difficulty scaling
- repeatable- this obj can be compleated multiple times. the requirments grow with every completion but so does the reward
- lawless- the rule for hijack… if an objective has this tot can do wharever
the ACTUAL examples
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minor
- spread propaganda posters (distribution)
you get syndicate posters. spread them out in non maint areas… with at least 15 tiles between each - aquire area layout (subtrufuge)
get in a restricted area and use your pda’s special given function to scan it
codewise a player needs to use their pda’s function for every single area in a designated department - pickpocketing (confrontation, theft)
steal X item in Y crewmember’s posseison(preferably something valuable) and extact it via the pda - falsifying criminalism (distribution)
you will be given a small amount of fake ilicit goods. have crewmembers use them - ilicit aquasition (theft)
steal X amount of Y valuable departamental item…
it will be from a department other than your own
and an item that isnt all that freely given out
examples(insuls,pka’s,upgraded tools…) - data theft (theft)
steal a data disk with X research… we arleady have that - plasma tank theft (theft)
steal a plasma tank with 28 moles. we already have that
- spread propaganda posters (distribution)
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medium
- theft(theft)
steal items/credits with combined worth of 3000 credits - prepare sleeper agent (confrontation)
you will be given a special hypnoflash. subdue and hypnotise X crewmember
the flashing doesnt actually do anything but upon flashing the objective is done. target will be given a random abductor tier objective - torture
give a special torture kit. restrain the given target and preform torture… a slow multistep action simular to ling consume. when compleate target is given a random trauma and the inability to say/write the tot’s name - distribute ilicit goods (special,distribution). given at shiftstart to some lesser antags
spawn X amount of crew with trait desire to aquire a special procedurally generated drug
some chems of the drug can only be gained via lavaland or botany
only the lesser knows the recipie. it comes with strong symptoms that can be easily detected by med.
sec is informed of the fact its distributed the symptoms and the fact it needs special components… but they do not know witch - smuggling out (offstation,distribution)
tot gets a random ilicit good to smuggle to a specific offstation base. space patrools may spawn
goods include
procedural chem(recipie includes lavaland,botany components)
organs (considered illegal from now on) - shuttle raid(inclusive,offstation,syndicate only)
spawn a shuttle that slowly passes by the station area.
objective is to either steal something from it (valued item,station nuke.ect) and deliver via pda offstation… or destroy it
shuttle will spawn with ghost guards and ghost patrools depending on how many tots particapate
sec will be notified that the ship passes… to prevent sec meta sometimes spawn a ship without the objective active - witness hunt(controntation,inclusive,syndicate only)
spawn fugitives in maint… order tots to kill them let tots see who the fugitives are
- theft(theft)
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major
- protect(confrontation,syndicate only)
a traitor from a rival syndicate branch has accepted one of the confrontation objectives do not let it be fuffiled for 30-40 minutes… where upon their objective will faill and yours will sucseed - sleepr brainwashing(confrontation,syndicate only)
you will be given a brainwashing disk. brainwash the target simular to sleper hypno braiwashing gives the target a abductor tier task - send a message(confrontation,syndicate only)
kill the target. you dont need to prevent them from reviving. upon killing them yourself they will get a permanent debuff of -50 max hp and slower speed… send a message
you have to kill them personally… what are we paying you for - breakout(subtrufuge) if a traitor has been in a perma area for more than 5 minutes get a chance to spawn this objective
get X traitor out of perma and keep them out for at least 10 minutes - grand theft(theft)
steal one of the major items we currently have as objectives - grand sabotauge(sabotauge,exclusive)
disable tcomms or gravity for x amount of time… while this objective is active random comms blackout cannot occur
- protect(confrontation,syndicate only)
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capital- again capitals are fuffiled at the end of the shift and are basically final jobs
- extort debts(conftontationm,syndicate only)
you are given the names of some lesser antags with the collect x credits overal objective
gain credits equal to their combined debt… if you fuffil that objective… their objective is also compleate
if you dont fuffil that objective… make sure they are dead by the end of the shift
- extort debts(conftontationm,syndicate only)
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extract value- (theft) given at the 20 minute mark
extract 10 000 or more credits by the end of the shift -
hijack(lawless,sabotauge,syndicate only)
hijack the emergency shuttle -
initiate drug cartel (special, distribution, repeatable) more likely to be given to a head
you are given the recipie for a trully elaborate chemical.
you must either…
distribute it to the addict crews that will spawn across the station OR
deliver to a offstation point
each delivery gains you credits…reach 10 000-30 000 by the end of the shift
for those who dont want to read in long. basically the idea is… give tots more objectives that arent as severe. whilst also giving some nonantag crew ilicit objectives
idea being.
get sec variety of stuff to watch out for
get tots a easier time by making tthem not worry about a eluseive final greentext but just to have fun with a smaller objectives (standard objectives are still in for those who still want to go out)
with the hope that theese changes would change sec’s mindset from… gmod baddie hunter to an actuall proper police force
and implement a system that lets antags interact with the crew in ways other than murder
my other idea didnt get all that much attention… the proper solution is clearly to be even more outlandish… stay tuned for next month’s tedtalk of how can we make lings less pathetic