AI player S.T.R. and other silicons Player Report

Player Input Player Reports
1

In-game report:

CKEY: Daridine

Your Discord: Evelina#3104

Offender’s CKEY: derpiestbruh, yoshimiwastaken, nosnek199

Offender’s In-Game Name: S.T.R, Lil’ Patton, DEXTRAL

Server (Sage or Acacia): Sage

Date (MM-DD-YYYY): 9/10/2021

Round Number: 32600

Rules Broken:
I am having a hard time defining this. I guess it would be breaking silicon policy. Refusing Law 2 orders. Acting with Out of Character Information.

Incident Description:
We caught someone who’d been reported as having committed a murder while we were busy with cultists. We try to detain them, multiple times trying to secure them, but due to my unrobustness, they kept escaping or getting loose in the brig. Over. And Over.
Admittedly a bit of salt was happening, and they werenot working with us to try clearing their name of the murder.
Further, Once finally shovedinto perma, somehow managed to wall off all entrances to perma and was in the process of spacing it to escape.

We get a drone to open the door, struggle to detain him a few more times. Then HoS and I make the decision to execute the prisoner. Name was “Cornelius Clay.” We decide to execute as the risk of running free and causing more murder was high.

We take him to get Co2’d and N20’d or whatever is in the reeducation center.
HoS makes an admittedly dumb decision to announce the execution of a murderer. and we forgot to remove Cornelius from the crew roster. (my bad, didn’t realize that’s something the warden can just do)

AI Immediately calls out the location of Cornelius being in the Execution chamber.
Major points here:

  1. AI has no cameras there.
  2. AI doesn’t know there’s an execution chamber.
  3. AI doesn’t know the execution chamber is called the Reeducation chamber or whatever.
  4. AI, and multiple borgs, including a DURAND for some reason all bumrush the execution room, shove security around, bolt doors and essentially clown parade the brig, distracting us for a good rest of our round. Cornelius gets away I think.

AI and the rest of silicones the decide to be more of a pain in the ass for the rest of the round than actual syndicate operatives spawned in later.

A few things to highlight.
"JNLG-735 exclaims, “STR, you should add ornelius Clay to the manifest!”

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AI Blatantly disregarding the Captain.
AI or a borg setting Officer Beepski to assault security
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While we are dealing with a cult. You know, the type murdering crew.
AI’s inaction, or rather, actions caused us to spend a significant portion of our shift dealing with them instead of the actual threat.
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Blatantly incorrect. We had not harmed anyone past that point.
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AI either care about space law or do not care about space law. You get to pick one interpretation.
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More of this shit.

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For this, it has been established that AI follow the world as it currently is. If they are not on the crew list. They were never on the crew list. Its how laws like “People with ears are human” works. The AI’s laws and what it sees define its reality.

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To sum this whole thing up in a bad TLDR:
I am ok with an AI taking offense to an execution.
I am not ok with the AI magically knowing the Warden, HoS, and Executee are in a room that, to the AI’s knowledge. DOES NOT EXIST and cannot be found on cameras.
I am not ok with, once the AI frees the prisoner, hinders Security and ignores commands for the rest of the round. Even once the question of morality is removed via taking someone off the crew roster.

Additional Information:
I feel like the aHelp I pulled did not get properly looked at and was resolved without effort.
Pasted here instead of screenshot because making word wrap properly is hard:

PM to- Admins : I have no idea how to fill out a player report for this round. But I do want an admin to look over the logs of this round as mmany MANY things were handled incorrectly during it. #It really makes me want to not play with an AI who actively hinters the crew and disobeys the Captain. Even well past having a morality conflict.
Admin PM from- Ivniinvi : The AI was following its laws after you announced that you were gassing someone over common.
PM to- Admins : Does that enable the AI to continue locking down security, after the culrit has fled?
Admin PM from- Ivniinvi : The culprit in this situation was the HoS, who committed human harm.
PM to- Admins : And, once the prisoner is removed from the crew manifest, does the AI get to ignore all commands from the Captain from there on forward
Admin PM from- Ivniinvi : I watched the ai from the 1 hour mark onward and this is an IC conflict. Make a player or admin report if you disagree with me.
- AdminHelp marked as IC issue! -
Your issue has been determined by an administrator to be an in character issue and does NOT require administrator intervention at this time. For further resolution you should pursue options that are in character.

This is not the first time I have had this response from Ivniinvi.
I feel like the aHelps I have had handled by Ivniinvi have been very hastily handled each time and I do not agree with their rulings, as they seem to mostly ignore context of the actions.

I will. 100% admit to being frustrated and salty as fuck during this round due to the events taking place and if someone does a log dive, (Anyone but Ivniinvi please) I am prepared to be talked to about my salt levels. And I am ok with that.

As a side note, unrelated to the AI and Silicons:
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Rude as fuck for someone not involved.

2 Likes
2

My side of the events. I was an admin ghost for the entire round. For some context, the mode was Cult. Cult was down to one member at the 30 minute mark and the last cult member died at the 64 minute mark. This whole thing happened around 30 minutes after that. Cornelius was not an antagonist.

I didn’t follow the events that led to Cornelius’ arrest and subsequent authorization for execution, I was mostly watching the AI and other random people.
I started paying attention to the situation when the HoS shouted in loud mode over common that they were going to gas Cornelius. The AI then checked suit sensors (the prisoner jumpsuit always has location sensors enabled) and saw Cornelius in the Re-education center. Normally, AIs act like a child with regards to this room, believing it to be an area where prisoners are transported to other stations. However, when the HoS announced that they were going to gas someone in that room, the AI and its borgs gained probable cause to enter the room where the HoS said they were going to commit crew harm.

The borgs then entered the room, and the AI was able to view the interior of the room via the borg cameras. Along with all of this, a Ripley (not a Durand) with a posi brain inside it (JNLG). One fact about posi brains in mechs is that they aren’t subject to laws, they get intro text which basically says try to help people and not blow up everything, but that’s it. I also believe it had no weapons, and if it did I didn’t see any use of them. At this point they see a crit Cornelius in a gas chamber full of co2 and n2o, with the hos standing next to the co2 and n2o tanks with a wrench. The borgs try to go in and grab cornelius, but there’s like seven people in that tiny room and they only manage to drag him out after he’s in hard crit. He dies ~30 seconds later with a borg standing next to him, who reports it on binary chat. The HoS has now killed a crewmember.

After this, the AI tries its best to Nonlethally Detain the HoS, using Beepsky and peacekeeper borgs. At no point did I see the AI do damage to the HoS. The HoS tries (and fails, repeatedly) to change the AIs laws.

As to the question of if it’s crew harm if they’re killed while on the manifest and subsequently removed from the manifest, a fullmin has concurred with me that the AI remembers that the person caused crew harm. I stand by my ruling that this is all IC, however if the fullmins believe I was incorrect, I will welcome the knowledge.

1 Like
3

I can’t really HANDLE this one, but I’ll gather what data I can for you, at least. I was one of the silicons involved and if you have issue with me then by all means fire away. Got a list of silicon names? I can add things like the round ID and a list of ckeys/IC names

Also @Ivniinvi you said to write a player/admin report if they didn’t agree, may as well let them have this. Hell, I felt shitty through that round (I was patton as per usual) so maybe it’s just karma at this point, lol. I won’t back down from the possibility of fucking up and needing to come clean :stuck_out_tongue: honesty is the best policy

All 3 silicons in question listed, other silicons that round were golem ship ones I believe

1 Like
6

I reiterate I felt like a douche that round OOC (especially when you apologized to me in LOOC) and usually I have a good gut feeling of right vs wrong so I’m willing to accept if I was in the wrong.

7

Thanks for updating the initial report. And I am sorry for salting and being frustrated with you as well. (I was Curie warden not the HoS.)

I just. Really did not enjoy the idea of us trying to handle someone we legitimately thought was a criminal, who’d fought with us and refused to cooperate at any point. Then suddenly the rest of the round just becomes a painful slog because HoS decided to announce it on coms.

I do want to get clarification on AI policy of freeing someone security had identified as a murderer.

1 Like
8

By all means don’t apologize for reporting what might be a policy break, we’re not above the law by any means :sweat_smile: So if I do something wrong I do honestly want to be called out on it.

1 Like
9

I apologize for probably coming off a bit strong in my initial response, if I was incorrect I welcome the correction so that I can be a better admin in the future.

The silicons pulled Cornelius out of the gas chamber in hard crit, and he died about 30 seconds later with the AI watching. I wasn’t specifically paying attention to this, but I don’t believe he got revived.

10

Hello yes hi I was the AI that round, hear me out

AI Immediately calls out the location of Cornelius being in the Execution chamber.
Major points here:

  1. AI has no cameras there.
  2. AI doesn’t know there’s an execution chamber.
  3. AI doesn’t know the execution chamber is called the Reeducation chamber or whatever.
  4. AI, and multiple borgs, including a DURAND for some reason all bumrush the execution room, shove security around, bolt doors and essentially clown parade the brig, distracting us for a good rest of our round. Cornelius gets away I think.

I tracked the HoS with their suit sensors the moment they announced to have executed Cornelius, I then head to my shell and see Cornelius, the crewmember tider, in critical condition in the gas chamber by the actions of the HoS

AI Blatantly disregarding the Captain.

My lawset prevented me from opening AI Upload, my character assumed they were planning to add laws which could break my current ones. The rank of command does not mean anything when it comes to crew or asimov lawset… unless it’s actually stated in the laws.

AI or a borg setting Officer Beepski to assault security

I have set the HoS (and only them) to arrest so he could be arrested and locked away from the crew for the harm they’ve committed, my lawset was on Crewsimov, law 2 overrides law 1.

While we are dealing with a cult. You know, the type murdering crew.
AI’s inaction, or rather, actions caused us to spend a significant portion of our shift dealing with them instead of the actual threat.

The Cult was pretty much deconverted at that point of the round, there have been not much reports of culties around and the end round screen showed that they were all dead or deconverted (cultists don’t appear in the end round screen if they’ve been deconverted AFAIK)

I will later answer to some stuff here

EDIT: Forgot to claim, I believe the Warden was also threatening to ahelp me by saying in sec comms something about “making a Centcom report” but I didn’t read it fully

11

You are correct on threatening to report you to Centcomm.
I was trying to vent my frustrations in an in character way, kinda like the idea of “Screw machines, tell Centcom they should all be decommissioned.” But clearly I also was thinking of ahelping too. As I was reading through the rules to file this report I did see that threatening to ahelp or player report is one of them. And for that I’m sorry and I’ll eat a note or temp ban or something willingly.

I’m sorry for that. I did let myself get salty and frustrated.

I did intend to write a letter to Centcomm and have the captain deliver it via console but the rest of the round was spent fighting a plague, clowns, and silicones.

1 Like
12

This first half of the round I was trying my best to follow SOP, I had the wiki up, Trying to follow arrest guidelines and tutorials on how to properly secure prisoners. Looking up prison sentences and just, trying to actually do my job. AND get security to follow it as well, and unfortunately I let a few Wiley prisoners get robust on me and Wiley coyote all over Brig for awhile chasing them down.

I wasn’t on the most level head, so when it came time to getting walled in and door bolted, and being made an enemy of the station. I was already on thin patience and friendly talk.

Until the end I thought we still were under cultist threat, as, despite antags being gone, people were still reporting murders and dead bodies.

As well as this Cornelius guy, who, while turning out to be innocent. Kept trying to break out of prison and resisting arrest. How can I tell who’s innocent or an antag, if the innocent people don’t act innocent?

EDIT: I realized I’m word vomiting now because I’m frustrated at someone at work now and it’s bleeding through. Gonna shut up and let other people talk for now.

1 Like
13

its all good man no need to worry about it

14

I think the lesson learned here is that if you are sec and you want the AI to stop bothering you consider changing the laws.

15

Does any RD ever actually detonate borgs? I feel like I’ve never seen that happen now that I think about it in spite of how useful it would be in situations like this.

1 Like
16

blowing up = killing, unless you have a very valid reason you will be fucked

2 Likes
17

Rarely because normally the AI would shut down the APC first.

18

Even then, I’d argue blowing borgs would be best used in only the most dire situations, especially considering the ability to lock down most if not all of the borgs

1 Like
19

Important to note that RD who basically executes borg players is in deep trouble if they didn’t have a damn good reason to.

Also yes AI or borgs shut down APC in RD office instantly when subverted.

20

You can’t change laws on AI easily, they aren’t allowed to let anyone change their laws.

21

I don’t think that’s true? As long as you have no reason to believe somebody’s trying to change your laws to one that allows what is currently considered harm, I believe you just treat it like any high security location. Can you provide a source stating otherwise?

edit: I still don’t entirely understand how replying works on these forums, for clarity I’m talking about the “they aren’t allowed to let anyone change their laws” part of ReneAngel’s reply.