Admin report BrawlerHorde

Player Input Staff Reports
1

In-game misconduct:

Title: [Offender’s CKEY] Admin Report

CKEY: Maxoesss

Your Discord: Maxoess

Offender’s CKEY: BrawlerHorde

LRP or MRP server: LRP

Offender’s In-Game Name (if relevant):

Date (MM-DD-YYYY): 2020-04-08

Round Number: 14406 & 14407

Rules Broken (if relevant):

Part of Admin Conduct Broken (if relevant):

Incident Description:

Additional Information:

Gave me the following note:

2020-04-08 20:22:10 | bs_golden | BrawlerHorde

Lied in ticket about reason for spacing someone on the emergency shuttle.

I latejoined in the first round mentioned as captain. Find some one with my hardsuit and other items that would fall under grand theft. I try to detain him and he shoots back at me with disabler rounds. I end up spacing him for grand theft.

Appearantly I lied for stating the exact above.

Next round I get bwoinked for lethalling the chaplain who has AA, while I’m Captain myself, which he should not have and who broke into armory. Grand trespass.

Some excerpts of the bwoink, staff can find all the logs but this is dumb.

Admin PM from-BrawlerHorde: He had all-access. That’s not breaking and entering. Also, this is “acting hostile”?##10[20:28:53] Serxule/(Henry Smith) (Armory (107, 177, 2))#“unexpected”#9[20:28:50] Serxule/(Henry Smith) (Armory (107, 177, 2))#“cap raiding the armory?”#8[20:28:47] Serxule/(Henry Smith) (Armory (107, 177, 2))#“wow”
Click on the administrator’s name to reply.

Admin PM from-BrawlerHorde: That’s why you nonlethally detain them and then strip their access. He never fired a shot at you.

Admin PM from-BrawlerHorde: 2. Validity Rules##“Heads of Command/Security cannot make players valid, only warrant their arrest.”##This man made no hostile act towards you, and you gun him down for your subordinate (the HOP) for giving them all-access.

1 Like
3

Unlisted as it is about an ongoing round.

4

This round is currently ongoing.

7

Round has ended. Re-listing.

8

For both of these incidents, Brawler actively pinged admin channels asking for input. Remember he is a new trialmin without a full week at this point. Learning to read a situation through logs, and internalizing the long list of rules takes time. Especially when it comes to juggling validity and escalation differences between the two servers.

In the first scenario you were in the right. On both LRP and MRP a captain can kill someone from taking items from a high-risk area, and the captain’s quarters are that. As Cap you can execute them on the spot for it. On LRP anyone can kill the person, on MRP sec could kill them although in both cases it would be breaking space law without authorization. Furthermore stealing unique rare items as a non-antag is against rules on both servers and constitutes self-antag.

In the second scenario Brawler was basing things on space law a bit once we in admin chat informed him of the reasoning for the hardsuit incident. That said killing a chaplain for unauthorized brig access is fine because it would be reasonable to suspect they armed themselves with weapons from the armory.

The issue that resulted in the ban was a misreading of logs and communication to the admin staff. As I said in the first paragraph, new trialmins are not extremely fast at reading logs and pulling out the essential ones. Logs are a fucking jungle to work through, and reading them quickly to recreate a situation is a skill that takes a little time. They had thought the assistant you killed had only tried to break the security checkpoint window outside the brig, and missed the logs where they were tearing through the entire brig.

Once again, on LRP, you are in the right for killing them. They are actively sabotaging the station, and are armed with a dangerous weapon. You are the captain and have a duty to protect the ship. Willful and purposeless destruction of the station, is again, self-antagging. Breaking a single window to break in is just tiding. The ban has already been lifted.

All that said, Brawler was on guard against you because of the fact you are known to toe the line. Further threatening an admin with a report if you get banned is extremely shitty. If you feel that admin conduct was broken, then just report it. Like yesterday however, you did not put anything in the admin conduct broken section. Admins aren’t perfect and trialmins are trying to learn while being berated and threatened by players. Its tense and can lead to mistakes.

Point is, you should not be weaponizing admin reports for whenever you feel someone gave you a bad ban, but for when admin conduct rules are broken. Misreading a situation and assessing it wrong are not willful breaks in conduct.

9

I didn’t threaten in case I got banned. Please post the log showing that I did.

If I recall correctly I notified him I was going to write a report regardless and said I told him it to be fair with him so he was aware and could respond to it.

Unga don’t misrepresent the situation towards your own benefit.

Also I’m pretty sure you are allowed to write an open admin report without specific conduct. Conduct in general is fairly limited.

Rules lawyer should not work just towards one way chief.

2 Likes
10

I’ll go recreate the tickets now, give me a few moments.

18

I’ll be cleaning this thread now. If your message has been deleted, please take it as a message to stop sperging out.

19

To reiterate bleepians, Both users had major trespassed, grand theft’d and also B&E’d restricted by doing so.

They were valid, and he should not have been noted for spacing him.

Also whichever admin auth’d it (kkk-asual) should be as much to blame as the actual noting admin.

1 Like
20

While the ban was initially authorised Kasual retracted it after I, along with others, provided more context to the situation. It was some minor miscommunication on our part and the ban was lifted nearly immediately.

As for the note about lying, it is seperate from the situation you’re talking about and requires us to look into it a bit more.

22
ahelp ticket from 14406. This round reset before a conclusion was reached. We told them in discord that cap killing someone who stole their hardsuit was valid. 
[2020-04-08 20:16:51.798] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: BrawlerHorde/(Claire Wilcox)->Maxoesss/(Owen McShain): So why did you space that person?
[2020-04-08 20:17:21.915] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Maxoesss/(Owen McShain)->BrawlerHorde/(Claire Wilcox): wearing captain hardsuit and such as non captain, me being the captain. Also shot back at me when I tried to detain him
[2020-04-08 20:17:59.194] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: BrawlerHorde/(Claire Wilcox)->Maxoesss/(Owen McShain): So shooting at you with a disabler = being spaced? Isn't that a bit too much escalation?
[2020-04-08 20:18:08.002] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Maxoesss/(Owen McShain)->BrawlerHorde/(Claire Wilcox): Doesn't grand theft make you valid?

Ahelp ticket in round 14407. Have to hand pull the logs so if I missed one let me know. 
[2020-04-08 20:33:26.300] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: BrawlerHorde/(Claire Wilcox)->Maxoesss/(Owen McShain): So why shoot the chaplain dead without an attempt to detain them?
[2020-04-08 20:33:49.399] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Maxoesss/(Owen McShain)->BrawlerHorde/(Claire Wilcox): Grand trespass = valid
[2020-04-08 20:34:13.495] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: BrawlerHorde/(Claire Wilcox)->Maxoesss/(Owen McShain): Now you kill someone for breaking windows and a computer terminal?
[2020-04-08 20:34:33.687] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: BrawlerHorde/(Claire Wilcox)->Maxoesss/(Owen McShain): No such thing as grand trespass. You also can't declare someone valid, only warrant their arrest.
[2020-04-08 20:34:36.764] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Maxoesss/(Owen McShain)->BrawlerHorde/(Claire Wilcox): Actively breaking into security with a weapon and acting hostile
[2020-04-08 20:35:27.520] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Maxoesss/(Owen McShain)->BrawlerHorde/(Claire Wilcox): Hold up let me ping one of your head admins about the no such thing as grand trespass
[2020-04-08 20:35:33.034] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: BrawlerHorde/(Claire Wilcox)->Maxoesss/(Owen McShain): He had all-access. That's not breaking and entering. Also, this is "acting hostile"?##10[20:28:53] Serxule/(Henry Smith) (Armory (107, 177, 2))#"unexpected"#9[20:28:50] Serxule/(Henry Smith) (Armory (107, 177, 2))#"cap raiding the armory?"#8[20:28:47] Serxule/(Henry Smith) (Armory (107, 177, 2))#"wow"
[2020-04-08 20:35:52.248] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Maxoesss/(Owen McShain)->BrawlerHorde/(Claire Wilcox): Access =/= clearance#
[2020-04-08 20:36:38.699] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: BrawlerHorde/(Claire Wilcox)->Maxoesss/(Owen McShain): That's why you nonlethally detain them and then strip their access. He never fired a shot at you.
[2020-04-08 20:36:57.523] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Maxoesss/(Owen McShain)->BrawlerHorde/(Claire Wilcox): This isn't MRP. valid is valid. You walk into armory with AA you forfeit your life
[2020-04-08 20:41:31.750] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: BrawlerHorde/(Claire Wilcox)->Maxoesss/(Owen McShain): 2. Validity Rules##"Heads of Command/Security cannot make players valid, only warrant their arrest."##This man made no hostile act towards you, and you gun him down for your subordinate (the HOP) for giving them all-access.
[2020-04-08 20:41:45.807] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: BrawlerHorde/(Claire Wilcox)->Maximus Robusticus/(Amelligan McMauligan): working on that.
[2020-04-08 20:42:27.426] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Maxoesss/(Owen McShain)->BrawlerHorde/(Claire Wilcox): I am literally the captain. He trespassed into the armory
[2020-04-08 20:43:13.976] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Maxoesss/(Owen McShain)->BrawlerHorde/(Claire Wilcox): I'm just saying this to be fair with you so you know beforehand and can respond to it. I'm going to write a complaint against you regarding this ticket and the note you gave me without notifying me, claiming I lied in my ticket when truthfullly told you I spaced him for grand theft and fighting back after trying to detain him.
[2020-04-08 20:43:51.554] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: BrawlerHorde/(Claire Wilcox)->Maxoesss/(Owen McShain): If anything, you kill the assistant for breaking a few windows? How do you explain that one?
[2020-04-08 20:44:59.534] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Maxoesss/(Owen McShain)->BrawlerHorde/(Claire Wilcox): Breaking all the windows in security for no reason and breaking in, while I'm dealing with grand trespass and generally acting aggressive and dodgy with a fireaxe. While I also have to deal with your bwoink.##If not an antag the player acted fairly self antagonistic##Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
[2020-04-08 21:06:10.081] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: BrawlerHorde/(Claire Wilcox)->Maxoesss/(Owen McShain): Report myself and Kasual on the forums if you feel we've misconducted the situation.
[2020-04-08 21:06:30.808] ADMINPRIVATE: BrawlerHorde/(Claire Wilcox) has created a global temporary 5 days server ban for Maxoesss. Reason: Overescalation in killing an assistant for breaking windows and a security records console with a fire axe. Currently watchlisted for toeing the line and BARELY staying within the rules. Authorized by Kasual. Appeal on the forums.
23

So seems like you did not use an admin complaint as a threat when banned. Sorry for claiming you did. The first two decisions (Hardsuit and Chap), Brawler made the wrong call at first. The third decision was a result of not knowing to look at coordinates in logs. They thought the assistant had broken just the windows to the brig.

You did not break any rules and the ticket conduct seems fine to me. Nothing else I can say other than a trialmin learning. I’ll leave it to others for input.

24

I’m confused why admins not checking logs correctly and not being aware of the ruleset, as well as making accusations (threat of report) without fact checking is proper conduct. But I’ll leave that to others to give their opinion on.

There’s also a certain hypocrisy when players are expected to know all the rules, but admins aren’t.

Edit 2: I’m also curious if the watchlist on my account, which has been before and still is used as justification (by Kasual for example), is STILL the same one made by zeskorion. He got demoted some time after it for multiple things, including my report against him. The watchlist was supposed to have been removed.

25

It’s about willful mishandling of situations vs. incidental ones while learning. Admin knowledge and experience doesn’t happen over night. If a full admin with experience had made these calls it may have been more cause for concern and something to be looked at closer.

That said It’ll be up to senior and head admins to look over the situation. Nothing else I can say on it.

1 Like
26

omg that guy is back AGAIN

28

I’ll remove the note whenever we’re both online at the same time. The other issue was already resolved as you got unbanned.

As a Trial Admin, mistakes are expected. In my opinion, as long as it isn’t intentional or an absurd fuck-up, a strike isn’t necessary.