Heck suit is not admin spawn tho, it’s the only bubblegum drop now.
Oh…oh no…time to go back to playing miner.
Continuing where I left off but on mobile
Let’s go over the list of items removed:
Useless to miner
- Chaplain weapons (x3, not x2, I couldn’t count)
- Cursed Katana
- Infinite soulstone
- Inferno Grenade
- Voodoo Doll
- Puzzle Cube
Useful to miner
- One of the three hardsuits
- Mysterious Core
- Instant summons (niche)
I removed one extreme high roll, and two middling rolls and then a lot of garbage, most of which fits the same criteria you’re criticizing me for leaving the meat hook in over - they’re only remotely useful for killing players and the cursed type items you can’t drop are actively detrimental to miners.
Now let’s look at what’s still available in chests instead of focusing entirely on the removal:
Necro chest drops
- 5 (not 4) PKA mods:
- Lifesteal is good because psuedo-passive healing is good, especially since mining pods are about to lose most of their extreme overstock on medicine.
- Repeater which rewards single pka players for their accuracy
- Resonator Blast which is admittedly garbage, but I included with the open mind that someone other than me with my specific playstyle might like it
- Combo AoE which is better than the both base AoE mods and sees demand among those that value mining instead of just combat.
- Bounty which permanently increases your damage against smaller mobs with no upper limit. This is a bad mod to have for boss fights, sure, but it is by no means a bad mod period.
- Paradox bags - useful bluespace storage and just a neat item in general.
- God eye - full X-ray vision is pretty useful to miners, and it has a nice character effect too
- Potion of Flight admittedly not that useful except for dealing with chasms, but some people still really like finding it and it’s not OP so it was kept.
- Diamond Pickaxe a meme item that is a trash drop for anyone but ashwalkers, who do manage to overcome tendrils on occasion. (+1 for trash drops)
- Ship in a bottle while it’s far from useless I’m going to count it as a +1 for trash drops too, so we’re at a total of +3
- Rod of Asclepius - fun niche item that isn’t useful to miners, but is still useful in general.
- Cursed Heart Extremely potent healing item but at what cost. Curse can be effectively removed by going to the station and seeking surgery after its use.
- Jacob’s ladder - quirky item that can be entertaining to use.
- Warp Cube - contrary to one of your claims is still available for use.
- Wisp lantern
- Immortality talisman - I don’t know what you’re on to claim this is useful for pvp but not pve. This item gives you limited immunity to damage but also hardstuns you during that immunity. A player can take advantage of you in this state, but a mob cannot.
- Memento Mori - Again, not sure how this is a pvp item - you’re dead in pvp as soon as you’re horizontal, and instantly dust when someone takes this off of you. This was left in because it’s an iconic item that players love for reasons beyond my understanding, but definitely not overpowered.
- Meat Hook - left as a possible pvp drop for being a unique weapon.
- Book of Babel Not very useful but fits as a random artifact find.
- “Water” Bottle it’s a floorpill on steroids. People love finding floorpills so I really don’t get the hate behind this.
- Necropolis Seed virus - Teamwork makes the dream work. This symptom needs some love to make it more useful and less awful (coming soon)
So in the end we get:
- 16 rolls for stuff that is useful to miners (4 kpa upgrades have two rolls - did not include resonator)
- 8 rolls for “fun or quirky” items
- 4 rolls for mostly useless items that only a small handful of players enjoy finding (resonator pka here).
Some items fit into both of the first two categories by my estimation.
Again - this was 100% intended.
Gamer gear rewards for bosses was bad design and encouraged the wrong kind of players into shaft mining. The ones that only want to powergame and not actually be a resource provider to the station. Now the rewards are mostly fun equipment rather than OP gear rolls.
Blood-Drunk miner and Heirophant remain targets to take down as antagonists for really nice (and unique AoE!) weapons to use against players when you get antag, but also both are still useful to non-antagonist for use on lavaland - Cleaving saw as the hands-down best melee weapon, and Heiro staff as a combo teleportation utility/mining tool.
All of the more challenging fauna are exactly that: A challenge for the sake of being a challenge to overcome, with the primary reward being ore and a nifty trinket rather than rolls at extreme combat advantage reward and griefing tools.
Getting them? No, it’s quite easy to get resources. Some players still choose to completely ignore gathering in favor of fighting because it’s more fun and this change made fighting fauna a viable path for players who have the skill and want to fight. It’s working with the players instead of yelling at them for choosing to skip to having fun over fulfilling their duties to the station. Why not make having fun also fulfil that duty to an extent?
Cool, it’s no stretch to say you weren’t wanted as one anyway. You are clearly a minmax powergamer who believes that what you think is the meta is the only right way to play. You are the sort that completely dismisses useful drops as trash because they aren’t the best drops.
This is just flagrantly misleading: All of the “cool trinkets” that weren’t purely griefing tools remained except three, two of which were re-added to uplinks and one of which was a wizard spell that didn’t really have much of a place to go.
3 Likes
The colossus crystal was not removed - it was simply moved to a different megafauna. The necropolis gate Legion now drops it 100% of the time instead of its old loot.
Colossus had two quirky but no OP drops and Legion had zero after removals, so the shift made sense to me. Voice of God was definitely going to be out of place on anything but Colossus.
1 Like
The only critique I have regarding the change that it removes (from what I have seen) more tools and gadgets from the game than it adds. I think that is one of the main reasons the change gets mixed reactions, even outside of the current miner playerbase.
While I do agree that the general direction of the changes is good, that one aspect tastes sour in my mouth. Items do not necessarily have to be useful for miners to be interesting, they should mostly be interesting for players as a whole (because the miner can still bring them back to the station if he does not need them).
TL;DR : Change good, item removal without new fun replacement items to fill the list = bad.
3 Likes
So why remove all three?
It was still an ERT-level hardsuit on par with things that should only be introduced to the round with admin intervention.
A pulse carbine would be useful to shaft miners, does that mean I should add it to necro chests?
You could’ve just made a nerfed variant, instead of removing the three loot drops entirely.
By all means - add new fun items to the drop tables. Creativity is unfortunately not my strong suit, so I fall short when it comes to inventing new items.
We got one idea with clear support - a nerfed version of the champion hardsuit
2 Likes
Combined with a GPS, the Jacobs Ladder can be used to specifically climb into space ruins with a GPS
Huh?
I asked why you removed all three?
Which one was an ERT level one?
If anything is an ERT level hardsuit its the HECK Suit. Need i remind you.
“Great melee resistance, good against explosions and bullets and completely fire-, lava-, rad-, acid and ash storm proof. Not spaceproof!”
HECK Suit is all around better than the Champion Hardsuit. I am in favor of the Champion Hardsuit replacing the HECK Suit drop.
Chaplain can literally get the Inquisitor Hardsuit last i checked so i dont care.
Why does the Nar-Sian Hardsuit exist anyway if its not used for Blood Cult? Maybe you could add it as an Forge Option.
All three Hardsuits were ERT Inquisitor hardsuits.
What?
I have only ever seen ERT wear the Inquisitor Hardsuit.
WHY WOULD AN ERT EVER WEAR NAR-SIAN HARDSUIT!?
They matched ERT stats.
Heck suit both comes with a downside and it’s not space proof so you’re still vulnerable to breaches when you’re parading around on station in your heavy armor (same for the other armors available to miner too - they’re just armor and not a multifunctional space suit)
That may be true but if every miner becomes an IPC…this is no longer an issue. Since IPCs: Do not have brains and thus cannot have hallucinations and can walk in space without the need of a properly sealed suit.
Also can you pull the stats for all three of the suits and compare them to the baseline ERT suit stats? I dont know how to do that unfortunately.
Edit: Ok i know how to pull stats now. Better question. Why the fuck are the stats not listed on the page.
Edit 2: Nevermind i understand now and Ruko is right. The Champion Hardsuit and the Inquisitor Hardsuit have the exact same stats as ERT suits.
armor = list(melee = 65, bullet = 50, laser = 50, energy = 50, bomb = 50, bio = 100, rad = 100, fire = 80, acid = 80, stamina = 70)
slowdown = 0
Simple solution would be to nerf the shit out of them.
I cant find the stats for the Nar-Sian Hardsuit but that shouldnt be in Lavaland anyway IMHO.
yes they do
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Ok well not in the same way as organics do. They have Posi Brains. Posi Brains do not experience hallucinations. And you cant put Manitol on them.
it’s a machine, how the hell would it hallucinate. it’s literal circuitry
shitcode
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1 Like