4rchibald noted by HelloMate

CKEY: 4rchibald

Admin’s CKEY: HelloMate

Ban Type: Note

Ban Length: -

Ban Date (YYYY/MM/DD/): 2022/08/20

Round ID: 39999

Ban Reason: The final version (keep that in mind) of the note says “EORG prep as atmos tech. Carried a flamethrower to CC and released the dangerous gas in it.”

Appeal Reason: It was a 2 hour long round with fairly low pop and multiple threats to station like revenant, swarmers and most importantly xenoaliens. I was an atmos technician, the only one during this shift and a person who discovered xeno nest in turbine room. Crew was asked to arm up any way they could, gear from armory was given out, cargo was ordering weapons and giving them left and right while I prepared flamethrower for myself and whole additional kit for someone else to grab (bag included flamethrower, spare tanks, complete firesuit and holofan (which I think is important to show I was always quite careful about using fire)). Crew managed to kill all of the xenos but for a while nobody was sure about it, during that time one of officers encouraged me to go patrol outside of station with them and gave me a laser gun so I hid flamethrower in my backpack. Once we stopped the patrol I instantly gave them their gun back.

For the rest of the round I was either dealing with emergencies like breaches caused by revenant (few engineers out of original team cryoed and the 2 that remained were actually antags so I had quite a lot on my head) or being afk (had to handle few things in RL so 2 or 3 times I’ve spent a while hidden in locker).
I didn’t give that flamethrower much of a thought since I was either afk or running around the station dealing with issues. When shuttle was about to arrive, I grabbed some extra gear from atmos-firefighting backpack and water tank in case of any emergency occurs during the evacuation as I usually do and I went to shuttle. It was during the flight when I started rummaging through my stuff and realised I still had a flamethrower on me.

I did indeed use it after we landed, beecoins were assigned and end round window popped out.

I was then bwoinked by admin HelloMate asking me about it, I told them what I described here, but in much shorter form, explaining why I made the flamethrower and why I still had it on me and to my surprise I got a note.

The note I received what different for the final version of it, it actually described it as planned and malicious act of bringing a whole canister of burnmix hidden as a canister of water vapor (that’s why I mentioned water tank here, cause for a longest time I couldn’t figure out where that water vapor claim even came from since nothing about water was said in our original admin-pm)

Additional Information: Maybe, in theory, you could potentially try to say I shouldn’t have a flamethrower at this point but I honestly don’t believe I would be even bwoinked, not to mention noted, if it wasn’t for original misunderstanding of the situation. After I made ahelp and explained that the note is describing completely different situation that I clearly had nothing to do with instead of getting my named cleared I was told the note will be modified so it stayed at same severity and whole canister relabeled into something else got rephrased into flamethrower.

I’m playing here, with a breaks, since Ssethwave, I was never banned (beside one misunderstanding from which I was cleared) and got just 2 notes over the years (one about leaving during ahelp and one for eating nightmare heart). I have no history of griefing or even preping for end of the round and we know that in this situation I was not doing so either and while I probably should have get rid of the flamethrower I clearly didn’t act against the spirit of the rules.

I believe this note is a product of misunderstanding and lack of admin’s will to back down when they were wrong. It is silly that my will to actually explain things privately with original admin acts against me cause if I wrote appeal for original note I would be instantly cleared since nothing of what was described there would have been backed up by logs and now it will be said that current version of the note technically may be correct.

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Hello, i’m the admin who banned you. I’ll offer here my perspective on this:

Logs weren’t 100% clear if it was a canister, or a flamethrower (as you were carrying a canisted at that time). That’s why i initially noted you for that.
EORG prep is not allowed either way.
You should not have carried a flamethrower to CC.

Yes, your record is rather clean (this is why this is just a note), but that doesn’t change the fact that you carried a flamethrower full of plasma to Central.
The note should stay as it correctly described what happened.

I’ll wait for another admin to give more impartial judgement before i take any action.

Thanks for your fast reply,
Still I don’t agree with your point of view and I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t get bwoinked nor noted if it wasn’t for original misunderstanding about the situation about my supposed preparing with a relabelled canister, which we now both know didn’t take place.

So I’m hoping to get someone’s else opinion in the matter as well

In a meantime, I know you probably can’t and shouldn’t give details about exactly who got banned or noted but out of curiosity, how many people did you bwoink about EORG prep that very round?

Everyone else was armed during the shift because of the xenos, while I bet majority of our players does their best best to follow rules and SOP and gave their weapons back to security it would be hard to believe 100% of them did it. Not a single person had a gun they shouldn’t? Not a bola or grenade got lost in their backpacks or even pieces of clothing like boots? What about security officers? Not a single security member had a piece of gear that was given out to them when alert was higher and wasn’t exactly necessary by the time shuttle launched?

Maybe I’m wrong but I’m willing to bet most of the weapons carried to CC was never discussed not only by you but by other admins as well and not only in this round but in many others too. We all understand things like that happen every now and then, the fact that you had something on you doesn’t necessary means you prepared for end of the round. Rule was placed there because people preparing for the end of round weren’t exactly RP friendly and because of those who were a bit trigger happy, resulting in deaths of multiple people before the round actually ended. Nothing in logs, my version of events or even your version of them suggest that I actually prepared. My history on this server, which is now counted in years, actually suggest I never did prepare for end of the round or do anything even remotely malicious

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Just to be clear, i would still have bwoinked you, and issued a note.

If it were possible, i’d bwoink everyone.
Realistically though it’s hard to pay attention to what everyone is carrying on the shuttle, AND not delay the round too much.
Gas canisters and flamethrowers are just the most flashy / dangerous, so it’s hard to miss them.

Under some circumstances carrying a weapon like a gun would be allowed, if it’s not possible to give it back to sec for example.

I’ve noticed a question yet to be asked that I think is quite pertinent. Did you actually use or brandish the flamethrower in CC at all? On the shuttle?
I think the argument that it is EORG begins to fall apart if the supposed griefing tool is not even utilized.

From my perspective, when looking into EORG, its always best to look into both actions and intent.

A few red flags are:

  1. Was the WMD created under unreasonable circumstances?
    (the individual did in fact have a reasonable situation to use them, against xenos)

  2. Did the individual make or collect the WMD post shuttle call?
    (in this case, the individual had created it prior)

  3. Did a marked change of behavior occur when the round timer was low? An ignition of a flamethrower, attaching a plasma tank to a maxcap, putting fluid into rainbow extracts… ect…?
    (I haven’t seen that so far in this discussion)

I know it was probably not my opinion that was wanted in this appeal, but this is just a few thoughts I had on it.



Your wording of supposed seconds is giving a false sense of what happened. I don’t really think it matters but I see that this case will mostly come down to analysing seconds of the whole situation anyway. I managed to leave the shuttle, I launched firefighting resin since this was indeed what I was geared with during the shuttle flight, a lot of people managed to get from shuttle to centcom dock and fighting started. Unless I mixed things with different round I was attacked by someone and then I finally used the flamethrower


I absolutely agree with your points. If it was a matter of what Hello first thought happened, the whole canister thing, with preparing, trying to hide it etc, I would totally agree with note or even ban. I probably wouldn’t mind it either if there were any signs of me preparing flamethrower for that occasion but there simply weren’t. I’m accused of EORG prep but at no point did admin give any example of how I was preparing, they seem to agree with events as I present them and only claim that the very fact flamethrower made it to CC means it was EORG prep.

First two redflags as you mentioned were already explained and we know that I didn’t do anything wrong when it comes to actual creation of flamethrower. Question posed by your 3rd red flag should be now answered by my response to @person4k3 , I didn’t take flamethrower into my hands, I didn’t ignite and surely I didn’t use it before round ended.
I don’t have anything against pulling the logs if it comes to that and we will have to do a proper in-depth investigation to decide on a note


Just because some things are more flashy than others doesn’t mean they pose the biggest threat to the game and community. One could argue that keeping closer eye on security officers during transit would make more sense since they have access to weapons they should not always be carrying or using and they could be consciously and consistently taking them on shuttle to be able to stop hijackers with firepower they should not be wielding at that threat alert.

Also I want to make one thing clear, I don’t think Hello had intention of finding anything against me, I don’t think I have any history with them and when they first bwoinked me they thought they were handling a much different situation. As I said, if what he described in original note actually happened I wouldn’t be against a ban or note
I as well have no bad intentions against Hello, it’s nothing personal, I don’t want to throw any shade on their term as admin, we just don’t seem eye to eye on this issue, they either didn’t want to remove a note (no idea if process of removing them is problematic in any way) or they have fundamentally different understanding of what EORG prep is than me. When I tried to ahelp it further I was told to make an appeal on forum and so here we are.

I also don’t believe I’m the only one who doesn’t see eye to eye with this EORG prep interpretation. When it comes to that I usually see what @RKz was talking about-there must be actions and intent suggesting the preparation. Question is, is this Hello’s interpretation of EORG prep policy or how it is interpreted in general? If it’s the latter then I hope this case will either push a change or at least make it clear to every single player how we should all understand this term

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By the way, flamethrowers only cover, like, 3 tiles when fired, right? It was literally a whole fire that covered the entire dock.

I do believe that carrying a flamethrower full of plasma on an escape shuttle is EORG prep, as i have already said.
There was no need for your character to bring such a dangerous weapon to Central.
But before taking any action i’ll wait for another admin to give more impartial feedback on the note.

Not if you fill it with cooled plasma/gas, sometimes even larger than normal plasma cannister, but its normal for you to not know this if you never touch atmos.

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Gas in flamethrower was cooled down, it was also a plasma-o2 mix so it would work in spaced areas of the station that lacked the oxygen, once again showing that the mix was prepared to fight xenos and destroy their nests.

Also what you saw was a result of shooting it few times in CC, and why wouldn’t I, it was an open battle, everyone was attacking everyone. I didn’t believe I did something wrong so I wasn’t planning on hiding.

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Doesn’t matter if it’s not used before round end. Acquiring gear to use in EORG is against the rules regardless of whether or not you misuse it before round end. There have been multiple occasions where people gather gear for EORG and then just so happen to go blast an antag on the shuttle with it.

They claimed to have had originally created the flamethrower as a response to xenomorphs. From what I can see this is a fairly reasonable explanation. There’s an argument to be made that they should have disposed of the flamethrower once it was no longer needed, but that’s not what the note is about currently.

As things are currently the note seems a bit ambiguous, I’d prefer if it was made a bit more clear at the very least.

Alright, I’ll edit the note to better reflect what happened.

“As atmos tech carried a flamethrower (full of plasma) on the escape shuttle, it was then used during EORG. It was originally meant to be used against xenomorphs, but once the xeno threat was over they still carried it to Central. The next time please leave any weapons to sec / dispose of them when the threat is over”

This should give more than enough context as to not be misleading.

Appeal accepted